Maxims And Opinions Of Field Marshal His Grace The Duke Of Wellington, Selected From His Writings And Speeches During A Public Life Of More Than Half A Century by Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

A >> Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington >> Maxims And Opinions Of Field Marshal His Grace The Duke Of Wellington, Selected From His Writings And Speeches During A Public Life Of More Than Half A Century

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_April 28th, 1828._

* * * * *

_State of the Poor in Ireland._

I am thoroughly convinced that no part of his Majesty's dominions so
imperiously requires the constant and particular attention of his
Majesty's servants as Ireland does. A noble earl has stated that there
are in Ireland 8,000,000 of people, the situation of 6,000,000 of whom
demands inquiry. He has told your Lordships likewise, that all the
wealth of Ireland is not sufficient to give employment to those people.
Now, certainly, I cannot but think that this is an exaggerated statement
on the part of the noble earl.

It cannot be supposed that there are 6,000,000 of the Irish population
who require employment--I cannot admit that the whole of those people
are unemployed. It is not true that they suffer this distress at all
times,--it is not true that they suffer the same degree of distress in
different years; but it is unquestionably true, that they do suffer
great distress at various periods, owing to the casualties of the
seasons, and to the particular species of food on which they subsist.
Such is the plain fact. The noble earl has stated, that the people are
able to procure that sort of food on which they chiefly live, at the
rate of three-farthings a stone. Now, really, if those people do not
suffer distress, except that which is occasioned by the untowardness of
the seasons; if those 6,000,000 of people can get provisions at the
price mentioned by the noble earl, in favourable seasons,--it does
appear to me that the case hardly calls for inquiry, except at a time
when their food has failed in consequence of an unproductive season. But
then the noble earl has asserted that the distress arises from want of
work, and that it would take more than all the wealth of Ireland to
procure employment for the people. "Let us then," said the noble earl,
"relieve the sick, the lame, the aged, and the impotent." The noble earl
has said, that one of the great evils of Ireland is want of capital; but
I must beg leave to tell the noble earl, that profusion of capital alone
will not prevent the existence of a numerous body of poor, and to prove
the fact let the noble earl look to the situation of England. There is
no want of capital in this country; the noble earl has told your
lordships that there are invested here L9,000,000 of capital belonging
to Ireland alone; and yet, with all this capital, the support of the
poor required last year amounted to no less than L7,000,000 of rates.

_May 21st. 1828._

* * * * *

_Catholic Emancipation._

A noble friend of mine has stated to the house, that the proposed
measure is inconsistent with the constitution, as established at the
revolution; and another noble lord has concurred in that statement. If I
had been going to propose a measure which would introduce a predominant
Catholic power into Parliament, I should then be doing that which is
clearly inconsistent with the constitution. But I am not going to do any
such thing. There are degrees of power at least. Will any man venture to
say, that Catholic power does not exist at present, either here or in
Ireland? I will address myself more particularly to the noble Lords who
have so pointedly opposed me, and I will ask them whether Roman Catholic
power was not introduced into Ireland by measures of their own? Did not
some noble lords exert their influence to the utmost to produce that
very power, which has rendered a measure like that which I have
announced to Parliament absolutely necessary? As such is the case, I
implore noble Lords to look at the situation of the country, and the
state of society which it has produced. Whether it has been brought
about by the existence of these disabilities, or by the Catholic
Association, I will not pretend to say; but this I will say, that no man
who has looked at the state of things for the last two years, can
proceed longer upon the old system, in the existing condition of
Ireland, and of mens' opinions on the subject, both in that country and
in this. My opinion is, that it is the wish of the majority of the
people, that this question should be settled one way or other. It is
upon that principle, and in conformity to that wish, that I and my
colleagues have undertaken to bring the adjustment of it under the
consideration of Parliament.

_February 5, 1829._

* * * * *

_Defence of his Conduct with respect to Emancipation._

I have repeatedly declared my earnest wish to see the Roman Catholic
question settled. I believe nothing could ever have been more distinct
or explicit than my expression of that wish; and is it a matter of
surprise that the person entertaining it should avail himself of the
first opportunity of proposing the adoption of that which, over and over
again, he declared himself anxiously to wish? On this particular
question I had long ago made up my mind, as a member of this house, to
take a particular course. It may be thought peculiar as a matter of
taste; but, for many years, I have acted upon the determination never to
vote for the affirmation of this question until the Government, acting
as a Government, should propose it to the legislature. My noble relation
(Lord Longford) knows, that ever since the year 1810, the several
successive Governments of this country have been formed upon a principle
which prevented their ever proposing, as a Government, the adoption of
any measure of relief in regard to the Catholics. In order to the
formation of a cabinet which, acting as a Government, could propose this
measure, it was, in the first place, necessary to obtain the consent of
that individual, the most interested by his station, his duty, and the
most sacred of all obligations, of any individual in the empire. It was
necessary, I say, that I should obtain the consent of that individual,
before the members of the Government could consider the question as a
Government one. Now, under such circumstances as these, would it have
been proper in me to have breathed a syllable on the subject, until I
had obtained the consent of the illustrious personage to whom I have
alluded?[10] I call upon my noble relative to answer this question, if
he can, in the negative. I beg of my noble relative to ask himself this
question, whether I was wrong in having kept secret my views, since the
month of July or August, not talking to any man upon the subject, until
I had the consent of that exalted personage, to form a Government upon
the principle of taking the question to which I have alluded into
consideration? My noble relative ought to place himself in my
situation--he ought to see what was expected of me; and then, instead of
blaming me for acting as I have done, he would see that, if I had acted
otherwise, I should have been highly blameable. When the question had
been decided--when I received the permission, so as to be enabled to
make the declaration--on not having made which, alone the accusation of
surprise can be founded--the opening of the session was so near, that it
was impossible to make known what had occurred earlier, or in any other
manner than by the speech from the Throne.

[Footnote 10: Lord Longford had accused him of concealment.]

_February 10, 1829._

* * * * *

_The Emancipation Bill not the result of Fear._

He would positively reject the charge which had been so positively made,
that those measures had been suggested to his Majesty's ministers, or
that their minds had been at all influenced by the fear of anything that
would occur in this or any other country. He totally denied the truth of
such an assertion. There never was a period during the last twenty years
in which, looking to the circumstances and relations of this country,
there was a more total absence of all cause for fear than the present;
and whatever might be the consequences of this measure, he would
maintain, that the period at which it was introduced, showed
sufficiently that its introduction did not proceed from fear; and that
such was the fact, he was ready to prove to any man upon the clearest
possible evidence. But, though these measures had not been suggested by
fear nor by intimidation, it would be found, when they were brought
forward, that they were founded upon the clear and decided opinion, that
this question ought to be settled, and that considerable sacrifices had
been made by himself and his colleagues in this, and in the other House
of Parliament, with a view to the final adjustment of it. In doing so,
he begged the noble Lord on the cross bench to believe, that not the
least considerable or the least disagreeable sacrifice on his part, was
the necessity imposed on him of differing from the noble lord on this
subject. But he would not talk of his own sacrifices--they were
trifling, when compared with the sacrifices which had been made by some
of his noble friends near him, and by his right honourable friend in
another place. He could not conceive a greater sacrifice than must have
been made by his right honourable friend, to bring his mind to the
determination of carrying this measure. It was obvious that nothing but
an imperious sense of duty had induced his right honourable friend to
make such a sacrifice; but the inconveniences and dangers which had
arisen from the present state of things in this country and in Ireland,
had left no alternative but the adoption of this measure; and now that
he had adopted it, he would use his best endeavours, in concert with his
colleagues, to carry it into effect. Under such circumstances, he would
entreat their lordships to wait until the whole question should have
come before them. When the measure should have been well considered by
them, they would then see whether it would be attended with the
dangerous consequences ascribed to it--and whether the carrying it would
not place the Protestant Constitution of these realms upon a better
footing than it had been since the union with Ireland. He would not now
enter into the discussion, whether the consequences of this measure
would be injurious to that Throne, for the maintenance of which he was
ready to sacrifice his life, or whether the measure was likely to
produce those effects which were apprehended by his noble friend on the
cross bench. Of this he was certain, that the existence of the dangers
which some noble lords seemed to apprehend from the adjustment of this
question, they were never able to establish; and whenever the discussion
of the measure came before their lordships, he would be ready to prove,
that the Protestant institutions of this country were exposed to more
dangers at present, than they would be exposed to after the adoption of
the measure that would be proposed.

_February 16, 1829._

* * * * *

_Former Associations in Ireland could not be put down.--Mr. Pitt for
Emancipation._

He must say, he apprehended from the number of persons in the habit of
attending that Association, the nature of the speeches there delivered,
and the measures to which all alike appeared parties, that the people
of Ireland at large had been parties to the Association.

He proposed the present bill as a preliminary measure; the necessity for
which was founded on the statements already made to their Lordships. He
considered any other mode of proceeding as inconsistent with the dignity
of the Crown, and of Parliament; and as absolutely necessary, in order
to reconcile to the ulterior measure which he intended to propose, the
good and worthy men in this country, who viewed with dismay and disgust
the violent and unconstitutional acts of the Association. He entreated
their Lordships to consider, that the eyes of all Europe were upon them;
and that they should do nothing which could give any man ground to
believe that, in the steps they were about to take, they were guided by
any other motive than that of expediency and good policy.

* * * * *

If they looked to the state in which the Roman Catholic question stood
in Parliament, from the period of the Union down to the present, they
would see the prevalence of a growing opinion in its favour. Mr. Pitt
had, in his time, considered it necessary to admit, that the laws
enforcing eligibility upon Catholics ought to be reviewed, for the
purposes of modification; and, under the repeated assurances of
different eminent statesmen, a Roman Catholic influence had undoubtedly
grown up in Ireland, which it was high time to satisfy by a reasonable
change of policy. For some years after this subject had attracted
parliamentary attention, there were reasons of a highly creditable
nature, both to individual ministers and to Parliament, why it would
have been improper and impolitic to have brought the measure forward as
a measure of government; but, since the year 1811, these particular
reasons had not been in full operation; and the subject, notwithstanding
the divided state of the Cabinet upon it, had been constantly discussed,
and during all that time, had been gaining ground. He was not prepared
to describe here the mode in which the principle of a divided government
had operated upon the Catholic question; but he defied any member of the
government, at the period to which he referred, to deny that, whether
the question before them was one of education for Ireland, one for the
alteration of the Criminal Law, or one for the regulation of tithes,
this division was felt to affect one and all of these topics; in fact,
that none of them could come to be discussed, without some reference to
the great subject which was so long in agitation. The time had, he
hoped, now arrived, when Parliament was prepared to settle it.

_February 19, 1829._

* * * * *

_Unparalleled State of Ireland in 1829._

From all he had seen and read relative to Ireland, during the last two
years, he was forced to arrive at this conclusion, namely, that he did
not believe there was on the face of the globe any country claiming the
denomination of a civilized country, situated as that country now was,
under the Government of his Majesty and the Imperial Parliament.

_February 19, 1829._

_The Roman Catholic Association dangerous._

The true description of this Association was, in his opinion, to be
found stated in the speech which had been delivered from the Throne, on
the first day of the session. In that speech, after observing that the
state of Ireland had been "the object of his Majesty's continued
solicitude," it was further observed, "his Majesty laments that in that
part of the United Kingdom, an association should still exist which is
dangerous to the public peace, and inconsistent with the spirit of the
Constitution--- which keeps alive disorder and ill-will amongst his
Majesty's subjects, and which must, if permitted to continue,
effectually obstruct every effort permanently to improve the condition
of Ireland." The speech proceeded to say--"His Majesty confidently
relies on the wisdom and on the support of his Parliament; and his
Majesty feels assured, that you will commit to him such powers as may
enable his Majesty to maintain his just authority." Such was a just
description of the recent state of the Roman Catholic Association; but
he believed he was justified in stating, that in the original
institution and formation of the society, on the subject of which it was
his duty to address their lordships, there was nothing strictly illegal.
The illegality subsequently complained of, and which it was the object
of this, as well as of a former bill, to suppress, proceeded from its
acts. Those acts consisted principally in levying a tax upon certain of
his Majesty's subjects, called Catholic Rent; and this, by means and
acts of extreme violence, which occasioned constant heart-burnings and
jealousies amongst his Majesty's subjects--by appointing persons to
collect the rent--by appointing other individuals to be treasurers of
it; farther, by adopting measures for organising the Catholic
population--by appointing persons to superintend that organisation--and
by assuming to themselves the government of the country, and still more,
affecting to assume it. Besides, they expended this rent in a manner
contrary to, and utterly inconsistent with, all law and order, and the
Constitution of the country. But this was not the least material part of
the danger occasioned by the Catholic Association. Part of the money
thus improperly obtained was spent for election purposes. And here he
called the attention of the noble and learned lord, to acts proving the
existence in Parliament of a Roman Catholic influence, and of an
influence directly derived from this Association. He would not discuss
that subject further at the present moment; but he begged noble lords
not to forget it, in discussing the details of a measure which he should
have to propose hereafter for their Lordships' adoption. Besides the
money spent in elections, there were other sums (also arising out of the
rent) spent in endeavours to contravene the due administration of
justice in Ireland. When he made this observation, he fully and freely
admitted the right, and, indeed, duty of every man, to watch closely and
vigilantly the administration of law and justice in this country; but,
at the same time, he was prepared to maintain, that that right and duty
could not be conveniently and justly exercised by the members of a
self-elected Association, having large sums at their command, and
employing the money which they possessed for the purpose of exciting a
spirit of litigation and dissatisfaction among his Majesty's
subjects--employing it for the purpose of defending some
individuals--for the purpose of prosecuting others--- for the purpose of
prejudicing the first inquiries in cases of criminal procedure, and
unduly interfering with the administration of justice by the magistracy.

_February 10, 1829._

* * * * *

The people were insidiously led to believe that the proposed measures
were for the establishment of popery, and the destruction of the
protestant establishment of the country; and, acting very properly on
this unfounded delusion, petitioned against them. But while he admired
and rejoiced in the excellent motives which induced the people of this
country, in many places, to protest against the intended measures of
government; he hoped that when they saw that those measures were not of
the dangerous nature ascribed to them, and that they tended, so far from
establishing popery, to check and prevent its growth, and to promote the
influence of the protestant religion in Ireland,--he hoped, he said,
the people of England would, in their conduct, evince that loyalty to
the crown, whence the recommendation of the measure had emanated, and
that confidence in the wisdom of parliament, which had ever honourably
distinguished them. Indeed, he was convinced, that when the people of
England saw there was no fear of the extension of popery from the
measure which ministers felt it to be their duty to recommend to their
sovereign, but that, on the contrary, they would tend to strengthen the
protestant interests of the state, they would hail those measures as
beneficial to all classes.[11]

[Footnote 11: This, and the foregoing extracts on the subject of
Catholic Emancipation, are from short speeches made by the Duke in the
House of Lords after the intentions of the government had been made
known, but before the Emancipation Bill came up to that house. Although
the Duke earnestly deprecated these preliminary discussions, he was
called up almost every night by some peer or other.]

_March 2, 1829._

* * * * *

_No Compact with Rome would add to the security of the church of
Ireland._

I know that there are many in this house, and many in this country, who
think--and I am free to admit that I was formerly of the same opinion
myself--that the state ought to have some security for the church
against the proceedings of the Roman Catholic clergy, besides the oaths
imposed on them by the Act of Parliament I confess that on examining
into the question, and upon looking more minutely than I had before
leisure to do, at the various acts of Parliament by which the church of
England is constituted, and which form the foundation on which it rests,
I can think of no sort of arrangement capable of being carried into
execution in this country which can add to the security of the
established church. I beg your Lordships to attend for a moment whilst I
explain the situation of the kingdom of Prussia with respect to the
Roman Catholic religion. The King of Prussia exercises the power which
he does over the Roman Catholic church, in her various dominions, under
different concordats made with the Pope: in Silesia, under a concordat
made by Buonaparte with the Pope; and in the territories on the right
bank of the Rhine, under the concordat made by the former sovereigns of
those countries with the Pope. Each of these concordats supposes that
the Pope possesses some power in the country, which he is enabled to
concede to the sovereign with whom the concordat is made. That is a
point which we can never yield to any sovereign whatever. There is no
sovereign, be he who he may, who has any power in this country to confer
upon his majesty. We must keep our sovereign clear from such
transactions. We can, therefore, have no security of that
description,--not even a veto, on the appointment of a Roman Catholic
bishop, without detracting, in some degree, from the authority and
dignity of the sovereign, and without admitting that the Pope has
something to concede to his Majesty.

Now let us suppose another security. Suppose it were arranged that his
Majesty should have the nomination of the Catholic bishops. If he
nominated them, he must also give them a jurisdiction--he must give them
a diocese. I should like to know in what part of Ireland or England the
king could fix upon a spot where he could, consistently with the oath he
has taken, nominate a Catholic bishop, or give him a diocese? The king
is sworn to maintain the rights and privileges of the bishops, and of
the clergy of this realm, and of the churches committed to their charge.
Now, consistently with that oath, how could the king appoint a bishop of
the Roman Catholic religion; and would not the Established church lose
more than it gained by the assumption of such a power on the part of his
Majesty? Then, my Lords, there is another security, which some noble
Lords think it desirable to have,--namely, the obtaining, by government,
of copies of all correspondence between the Catholic clergy and the
Court of Rome; and the supervising of that correspondence, in order to
prevent any danger resulting to the Established church. Upon that point
I must say I feel the greatest objection to involve the government of
this country in such matters. That correspondence, we are told, turns on
spiritual affairs. But I will suppose for the sake of argument, that it
turns on questions of excommunication. Is it, then, to be suffered, that
the Pope, and his Majesty, or his Majesty's secretary of state acting
for him, should make law for this country? for that would be the result
of communications between the Catholic clergy of this realm and the Pope
being submitted to his Majesty's inspection, or to the inspection of
his Majesty's secretary of state. Such a security amounts to a breach of
the constitution, and it is quite impossible that it could be made
available. It would do more injury to the constitution and the church,
than any thing which could be done by the Roman Catholics themselves,
when placed by this bill in the same situation as dissenters.

With respect to communication with the Court of Rome, that has already
been provided against and prevented by laws still in existence. Your
Lordships are aware that those laws, like many others regarding the
Roman Catholic religion, are not strictly enforced, but still, if they
should be abused,--if the conduct of those persons whose actions those
laws are intended to regulate should be such as to render necessary the
interference of government, the very measure which is now before your
lordships will enable government to interfere in such a manner as not
only to answer the object of its interference, but also to give
satisfaction to this house, and to the country.

_April 2, 1829._

* * * * *

_Anticipation of success for the Measure. The parallel case of the
Scotch Church instanced._

When I recommend this measure to your Lordships attention, you have,
undoubtedly, a right to ask what are the reasons I have for believing
that it will effect the purpose for which it was intended.

Note--The above extract and those which follow of the same date, are
from the Duke's speech in introducing the Catholic Relief Bill.

My Lords, I believe it will answer its object, not only from the example
of all Europe, but from the example of what occurred in a part of this
kingdom on a former occasion. If I am not mistaken, at the time of the
dispute between the Episcopalians and the Kirk of Scotland; the state of
society in Scotland was as bad then as the state of society in Ireland
is at the present moment. Your Lordships know that abroad, in other
parts of Europe, in consequence of the diffusion of civil privileges to
all classes, the difference between Protestant and Catholic is never
heard. I am certain I can prove to your Lordships what I stated when I
said, that the state of society in Scotland, previous to the concession
of civil privileges to the Episcopalians, was as bad as the present
state of society in Ireland.

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